THA S02 EP#28 - Stop Guessing, Start Mapping: The Science of People Strategy

Most leaders think they know their people. Jason Taylor says the data tells a different story.

Jason is the President of JET Coaching Co. and Managing Principal at Predictive Success Corporation. His work is built around one question: do you actually have the right person in the right role? Not who you think is right for it. Not who has seniority. The person whose behavioral makeup fits what the job actually demands.

In this conversation, we get into the science behind the Predictive Index, what really drives misalignment on teams, and why the best salesperson on your team is probably not your next sales manager.

We also talk about self-awareness. Jason shares a stat from a Harvard researcher that stopped me cold: 95% of people believe they are self-aware. Only 15% actually are. That gap is where most leadership problems live.

Topics covered in this episode: why promoting your best performer is often the wrong move, the four behavioral factors the Predictive Index measures, how to map your team so you stop guessing, what true self-awareness looks like in practice, the four types of team members every leader has right now, why growth does not always mean a promotion, and what Jason calls better work, better world.

Connect with Jason Taylor: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jason-taylor Email: jtaylor@predictivesuccess.com

This Show is sponsored by TimeBandit.io

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome to the Habit Architect. My name's Michael Cups. As usual, I'm glad to have everybody here on a Thursday morning. Please do fill out a question or chat on the YouTube or LinkedIn, depending on where you're linked into us and we'll share that with our guest. I'm excited about our guest today because I actually went through his science a week ago, I think, where we're gonna talk about this predictive index in his company. Michael: 0:23

But he put me through the the test, which was easy to do, is about 15 minutes of my time, and he came back with insights that blew my mind. And we're gonna talk a little bit about how companies can use that science. To get better at people, putting people in the right roles to succeed. So we'll talk more about that. Michael: In the meantime, I do want you to go whatever platform you're listening to this on, if it's Spotify or YouTube or what have you do, go hit that favorite button, that subscribe button, that follow button, whatever it is on your platform of choice that means a lot to us. If you can do that. And of course make comments and tell us what you think about the podcast. Michael: Let's bring on our guest. Jason Taylor is the President of Jet Coaching Company, as well as managing principal at

Predictive Success Corporation. And what this is about is I think we've all met somebody that is really good at a job. And they get promoted and maybe they're not as good at that job, or maybe they're unhappy in that job, Jason's gonna be able to dissect why that happens a little bit, and how we can actually get better at making sure that we're hiring the right people and putting 'em in the right roles to be successful. Michael: So let's bring Jason from backstage. Hello, Jason. Jason: Hey, good morning Michael. How are you? Michael: 1:23

Good. It's good to see you again. And I probably, I didn't start with it, but I wanted to mention that you and I both are cancer survivors, so yay us, right? Jason: Yes, we are. Yeah. It's nice being nobody really knows what you go through until you go through it, right? Jason: Yeah. And I always say there's so many people out there that have it. It's the one, it's the one common trait that you actually don't want to have with somebody. But when it does happen, it's just you know what the fight they went through. Yeah, no, congratulations on your journey as well. Michael: Yeah, exactly that. That is nice to see people come out the other side of that. And you're right, it is a hard journey, but glad you made it through and I'm glad you're here today. I gave you a slight

introduction, but why don't you introduce yourself just 'cause you'll probably do more about the details. Jason: Yeah, absolutely. So I I'm a managing principal at a company our company called Predictive Success. I help I help businesses realize the potential of their current employees, and not only that, make informed data-driven decisions that are analytical in nature to see if we're gonna have the right person in the right role, and how is this team going to engage with each other. Jason: 2:23

So I often say. Businesses. Every business has a strategy, whether it's a small business, medium, business, large, every business has a strategy. That strategy is to obtain results, obviously, right? But what a lot of leaders sometimes forget about is the link between those two things is people, right? Yeah. So if we can hire with intention, if we can inspire our current team, engage them, and know what leadership team is actually leading those teams, we can actually get to our results a little quicker. Michael: Yeah, absolutely. And that's I wanted to start there because when you think about misalignment, a bad hire costs a lot of money because you end up replacing them. They're unhappy. You're unhappy, the team gets unsettled. But even more

so when you're in a company, I've seen this a lot because I've been around sales and marketing for tech companies for. Michael: Too many years. And what happens is there's a really good sales person and they get promoted to sales manager or a really good marketing person that's creative, and then they get put into a manager's job and they're looking at metrics instead of doing the work that they like to do. And that misalignment can, while it's a good assumption, your best marketing person is gonna be the best manager. Michael: It, without kind of understanding that, that could be a big mistake, right? Misalignment is a big thing. Jason: 3:23

Yeah, it's absolutely a mistake that many people make, right? So we often say, you know exactly what you said, the best sales person is gonna be that that, Sally's the best salesperson we have. Jason: Sally needs to be the sales manager because she's going to exude that to the sales team. But that's not the case. Does Sally actually have the behaviors that are needed to actually be that sales manager? The way I usually put it is just as people have, just as people have behaviors, so do roles and jobs have behaviors as well. Jason: And when we can assess the role. And the great thing is it takes 10 minutes to assess a role properly. Michael: Yeah. Jason: When we

assess a role in, in, in 10 minutes, we have a scientifically validated behavioral framework of what we're looking for in that role. Then we take the behaviors of the person and we actually put them over top of that. Jason: That role and we see the fits in the gaps immediately and then we can actually plan succession planning as well, right? So it's not just about, it's not just about, Hey what's Sally's next job? It's also about, how do we keep Sally in this company for a long time? How do we actually see what her roadmap is in this company? Jason: 4:23

So she's gonna thrive and in turn we're gonna thrive as well. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And do you have any stats on what that misalignment is or, and I'm, and I Hard, sorry to put you on the spot, we didn't talk about this beforehand, but do you, how many bad hires are there and what does that do to a company or, and even figuratively, if you can talk about that. Jason: Yeah. It depends on the position actually, Michael, so it's a great question. Okay. So it depends on when we're talking about hourly, lower lower not lower positions, but more hourly positions. Yeah. Turnover seems to be higher when we're talking about salary. It tends to lower a bit. Jason: Okay. The point that you

have to think about though, is. If I'm in a high turnover role, that's usually anywhere. High turnover is anywhere from 20 to 30%. Anywhere between 10 and 20% is where the average is and below 10%, that's what sometimes I call healthy turnover. If we actually need turnover and we actually wanna make some tweaks to our. Jason: Our business. But what I do is I work with the leadership teams, the CEOs and the owners and the founders and the VPs, and say, Hey, how do we wanna build this thing so we can actually, again make some money along the way? Michael: 5:23

Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. So why don't we give a frame for the, for our audience about. Michael: What it is that predictive index does. 'cause I did it last week. You asked me to, then you sent me the and it was quite it's an interesting thing, right? You're just picking words and then all of a sudden you gave, came back with a report that was quite amazing. Yeah. So what is, what's going on there? Michael: What is that? What is the science behind it? Jason: Yeah, so the science behind it is we measure four factors on every human being. So we measure the dominance factor, we measure the extroversion factor,

we measure the patient's factor, and we measure the formality factor, and we give you two questions. And our whole concept is, how can we do this fast, simple so people are engaged and we can get the true. Jason: Logistics and analytics of a person that we need, right? So by answering two questions and picking the words, that's all it is. It takes five minutes. Those words that they pick go into a different bucket. A dominance bucket, an extroversion bucket, a patient's bucket, or a formality bucket. That creates a spread of the profile. Jason: 6:23

And we see what that person needs and how they're gonna behave because of their needs to ensure that they're happy in what they do. Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a big part of it, right? Comfort in the position. We all wanna be challenged, but we also wanna be somewhere that we enjoy what's ahead of us in the day. Michael: So absolutely. Outta those four metrics, how, is it a combination of the metrics or is there certain things that you can really spot that says, Hey this role needs this trait? Jason: Yeah, absolutely. So the it's the, it's a twofold answer for that. So the, we look at each factor individually,

but then we look at the factors. Jason: Together. Okay, I'll give you an example. If I have a person who's very independent and dominant and they're impatient for results, I know that person's gonna be proactive. I know that person is, they want to make the decision, and oh, by the way they wanted it done yesterday, so I know they're gonna move with speed. Jason: 7:23

Okay. Yeah. If I have person the opposite with a more collaborative dominance, so they want to collaborate and their patient in the study, I know that person's gonna be task orientated. They're gonna want the right decision, the best decision, and then they're gonna help lead the team to get to that proper decision and get to that outcome. Jason: So by looking at each factor, the dominance, extroversion patients, or formality factor together. We can also group them together and see who we actually get. And the best part about our system is there's cheat sheets, right? Yeah. There's ways to do this re yeah I'm trained in this, but there's ways that the, the CEO or the CFO can just read based on what their, where their factors are and what person's coming into their organization. Michael: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. And so is there a particular

organization size or organizational structure that, that gets the most benefit from your service? I was thinking that what's, what would really be cool in a young growth company, you have a founder who is now outside of their comfort zone, and they know they need a CFO and a COO because they're scaling and it's getting really fun, but it also can get outta control fast. Michael: It's, but what's your ideal pro profile for a customer? Jason: 8:23

Yeah. So here he, I'm gonna answer that and it's gonna be a bit of a shocking answer for you. Every company's a an ideal customer, and I'll tell you why. The common thread between every company is people, right? Yeah. And we need to know our people to make sure that we can, oh, so now to, to your question, Michael, is how do companies use it? Jason: So if I'm a startup founder company and I have. Three people on my team. How do I build this? How do we map it out and how do we actually grow? I work with the founders on how do we actually take this thing and make it grow so it's sustainable and we're building something strong with a company that's scaling. Jason: Okay, so we're not in the startup mode anymore. Now we're scaling, we're making some money, but now. We really

have to work on efficiency. We have to work on productivity so we can get to be our, the big gigantic company. And when I'm looking at gigantic and big companies, then it's about promotions, right person, right role, who's leading the individual's teams. Jason: So who's actually, it's not just one leader as a startup would have, or a scale up would have. Now it's multiple leaders now it's multiple people that have to work together. And then we can actually see, hey, how are all these leaders gonna work together and engage with each other so we can actually grow our bottom line a little quicker. Michael: 9:23

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because some of those traits, like you said earlier, you have a dominant trait and you want it, you want your answers. Yesterday might, you gotta figure out a way to make that work together. Because what you may not need in the COO role is that you need somebody that's more calculated and they're, how they, so that, how do you, so managing inter interpersonal skills between the leadership team as well, right? Jason: That's right. Because sometimes you're working with a leadership team and you're thinking, man, why? Why doesn't he understand what I'm saying here? I don't get why he doesn't understand my point of view. Or and by the way, they're

saying the same thing about you. They're saying, I don't understand why he's coming up with these ideas when we actually know how we behave. Jason: And I like to put teams in four quadrants. I put people in. Are they in the innovation and agile quadrant? Are they in the results and discipline quadrant? Are they in the process and precision quadrant, or are they in the teamwork and employee experience quadrant? And then how do we double down on our strengths as a team? Jason: 10:23

How do we balance out the team if needed? Yeah. And how do we know then, based through science and analytics? Hey, you know what? Russ isn't gonna talk to me like that. He is gonna be short, Kurt, to the point. But that doesn't mean Russ doesn't like me. It just means that's who Russ is, and I need to make sure that I adjust my communication and become a little more self-aware. Jason: Yeah, because the true misconception with leadership and engagement with teams, whether you're a founder or starting up or in a big company, is. 95% of people think they're self-aware, but in fact, only 90, in fact, only 15 to 12% are self-aware. And true self-awareness is, yeah, that's a fact. Jason:

That was done by Tasha Urich. She was a Harvard business professor. She did a five year study with over 5,000 participants in it, and her study said 95% of us think we're self-aware, but only fact, only 15% of us are. But true self-awareness, that's a question because most people will say. Oh, hey, I know my strengths. Jason: I know my blind spots, Michael: right? Jason: 11:23

I'm self-aware. That's not true. Self-awareness, true self-awareness is, I know my strengths, I know my blind spots, but more importantly, how do they affect my team and how is my team going to react to those blind spots and those strengths based on how I present myself, and then I can make my message resonate with the team. Jason: I can actually, if I have to talk to you one way, Michael, and I know it with you based on your profile, I know I can actually be very direct with you to the point and you're gonna be like, yeah, okay, got it. Jay, but maybe Jennifer on my other team, she needs it to be a little more soft approach and I can't come across as, just as driving as I am, I need to tailor back a bit. Michael: Yeah. That's interesting. I was, when I was thinking

about this conversation, I was thinking about the hiring process, but you're right there's a lot to the dynamics of making a team successful and how they interact with each other. And that's for sure. Michael: That knowledge is, so I'm guessing in an engagement, if you have a team, and let's say you have a typical C-F-O-C-E-O, COO, VP of Sales whatever they they see each other's profiles or are they get trained on how to react to that profile, not necessarily the person Or is it, how does that happen? Jason: 12:23

Absolutely. You said it perfectly. So we in a self-aware organization, we will share our profiles with everybody, right? It doesn't it's not a scary thing to say, hey. And people will say to me, Hey, I'm this profile, is that okay? 'cause we have names for profiles, we have social profiles, analytical profiles, stabilizing profiles, persistent profiles, and we have individual names for those profiles. Jason: And people will say, Hey, one of our. One of the names for a profile is a collaborator. So they'll say, Jason, I'm a collaborator. Is that okay? And I'll chuck. I go, absolutely, it's okay. And I tell people, you're perfect just the way you are, but

now we know how to work with you and now we know how to coach you properly. Jason: And now we know how you're gonna interact with the team. Because collaborators will work a little different than with somebody who's a specialist, right? Yeah. So we can actually improve those dynamics and be a little more self-aware as a team. Michael: Yeah. Which is an interesting statement because when you think about that there's no wrong answer to the test, right? Michael: 13:23

Yeah. It's just we're finding out who you are, but our culture says, oh, I've gotta nail this thing because I want that promotion and I want this and that. And so there's this, it's this driven innate. Perception that we need to do well on it, but it's really just saying who you are, right? Jason: That's right. It's just saying who's coming on the team, and then how is that person gonna engage with my team and how do I need to make sure I engage yeah. With them as well. Michael: Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about the individuals? Number one, take the test and our, we're taught that we, when you get to a big company, you do your job, you get promoted, you do that job, you get promoted and that is supposedly the journey that we all want, right? Jason: Yeah. Michael: But the reality is maybe that's not the case and that, and we need through

HR departments to make it okay. Where you are. But how do, how does that get played out? It feels if you get over, if you get passed over for a. Promotion, but you're happy with what you do and how you do it, then it's okay. Michael: But it's, that's not, Jason: yeah. So it you're right. Society tells us we should always be constantly moving up, right? Yeah. So there is an innate, there is an innate thing in everyone that we want to grow. Okay. But growth doesn't always mean a promotion. Growth could be a side project growth could be a a special assignment. Jason: 14:23

Growth could be lateral move, right? So my brain's working a little differently, but what I like to focus on is, hey who's our hard performers? And let's map out what their succession looks like, right? Yeah. And we map that out by assessing every role in the company, whether that role is full or vacant or whatnot. Jason: We map out every role in the company so we can see a path for people. Okay. Michael: Got it. Jason: It, but then I give permission to people when they say, Hey, you know what I'm really happy that where I am, I'm enjoying life. Yeah. And that's okay, right? Yeah. It doesn't, not everybody needs to be president of the company. Jason: Not everybody

needs to be the VP or the director of the company. Some people are very happy with what they do. I, from personal experience, I managed and led a very high performing team at Labatts, in Canada. Yeah. And I was doing reviews one day and we were talking about succession planning and whatnot. Jason: 15:23

I, I was speaking to one of the. One of the salespeople there, and he was almost scared to tell me, I'm really happy doing what I'm doing. I'm enjoying it. I make good money with the commissions and all that stuff around and what I'm doing. But he was scared to say I actually, I'm not looking at a promotion right now. Jason: I'm really, and I actually said to him, it's okay. That's all right. We actually need people to say I'm really cool where I am right now, and I'm enjoying it. Yeah, maybe in two years that changes, but right now I'm good. Michael: Yeah, that's fantastic. And it's right and people are we're multi, our job is one piece of our overall life, right? Michael: And so some people might enjoy volunteering in their local community versus working, traveling all the time where they can't give back to their community. So it is something that question that needs to be asked, I

think. And I don't know if it's asked a lot, especially in the midsize companies. Michael: I think midsize companies are growth. Like you said, when they're scaling, everybody's trying to think about growth, so they don't really stop and think about, Hey, what do we need as a foundation to keep this business running? Jason: Absolutely. Yeah. People are scared and people are scared to have direct conversations sometimes. Jason: 16:23

Yeah, and they think that if they have a direct conversation, it's gonna be uncomfortable. And maybe Michael will think, I'm not motivated. He'll think that, oh, he doesn't wanna be promoted. Do I want him on the team? I want people that just wanna. No, maybe I'm a great person and and I'm really happy what I do, and I perform I put people into four quadrants in companies. Jason: Okay? And the four quadrants are, cultural, champion, right? That person's highly engaged and there's high performance. Michael: Yeah. Jason: The next person I like to say is the grinder. High performance, but low engagement. Okay? The next person is what I call the silent killer, that they're highly engaged. Jason: Performance is low. Or the contaminate Low engagement. Low performance, yeah. So I map out teams that way on, on where they are in their career, where

they are. And then I do a real, I work with the founders and the VPs and the directors and saying, Hey. I is the person in the right role. So first and foremost, do we want this person to be part of the company? Jason: 17:23

And if they are, okay, let's just map it out and where we need to get them to go. 'cause they love being here, but they just, they're not in the right role right now. And once we do that, we stop we stop eating soup with a fork, and we whole bunch of work and nothing's getting done, yeah. But we get a little more substance and we can actually move the needle a bit easier. Michael: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And I'm guessing part of your analysis and working with companies is also ma mapping when somebody is a collaborator and I forget one of the other words you used. Jason: Specialist, whatever. Yeah. Michael: Specialist. Do you map that? How, listen, you have an executive partner over here that's in finance that you need to discuss this way or, do you do that level of coaching? Jason: Yes, we do. Yeah. So what we're experts at is, hey, based on this person and who's this one profile and this person, who's that?

Jason: What are the strengths, cautions and tips to their relationship and how do they like to be communicated with? Yeah. Do you know if I'm going into somebody's office and I know they're incredibly independent and low patients, I know I'm gonna have to make a quick get to the point. Let's be pretty direct and go, if I looked with somebody the other way. Jason: 18:23

Then it's okay. I need to be, take a little more time. It's probably gonna be a 10, 15 minute conversation. Yeah. And direct it that way. And then when we see, hey, here's what we're great at together, but here's the cautions, and we get those tips. We can both adjust and I believe we both have to adjust, right? Jason: It's not just me or it's not just you. We both have to meet each other halfway to improve that relationship or make that relationship thrive a little more than it already is. Michael: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's, and that's, when you think about friction at work, this is a awesome way to actually start understanding it, that self-awareness comes in. Michael: Sure. Now so when we think about a company that's executing on this type of of. Program because we're a habits and priority management type of system and

time bandit. So what are the ha what are maybe we start with what are the bad habits that get replaced with good habits? Michael: Or we can start reverse that. How whatever is comfortable for you, what does it look like to be good and when you implement this system and what was it before? Jason: Yeah. What I like to start with is get to know your team, right? And what I mean is your direct team. So whether it's same level as you or the people that are actually reporting into you. Jason: 19:23

So get to know your team and don't assume that you know them. So there are people that I've been friends with, I've worked with, and I've thought, ah, you know what? I've got him figured out and whatnot. Sure, I have some of it figured out. But then. You know what? Maybe I don't have everything figured out along the way. Jason: Yeah. So get to know your direct team or the people that report directly into you first and foremost. Okay. Then how do we actually see what the fits and gaps are of that person to that role throughout the year so we can not just, guess if this person's gonna struggle, we can actually see how long is this person gonna take to get into this role and get up to speed in the role that we actually need him or her in. Jason: Okay?

How do we actually coach them properly as opposed to just saying, do a better job? Okay. You know this, one of the best habits it gets to you, Michael is actually says Hey. This person needs to be coached this way. Yeah. And then here's some strategies on, based on who you're dealing with, on how they like to make decisions, how they like to take action, how they deal with the risk, right? Jason: 20:23

Yeah. So I can actually get four or five strategies based on who you are and what you need, and apply one of those strategies instantly to make sure that you're gonna thrive in your job. Here's the thing, when you thrive in your job, that create what? That creates what I call better work, better world. Yeah. Jason: Okay. And what I mean by that is better work, better world means it actually doesn't feel like work to me. Yeah. So I'm very fortunate. I experienced better work, better world, so I didn't get up this morning and say. I can't believe I have to talk to Michael on his podcast today. Oh, it's a grind today. Jason: Yeah. I have to meet with Frank in the morning, and

I didn't say that I got up and I said I'm very grateful and I'm lucky that I get to talk to some awesome people today and help them improve their companies through people and get to their results quicker. Michael: Yeah. Jason: And I know you're the same way. I know you love coaching and working with people and companies to say you're in. Yeah. You're in the exact right role. You should be in. You know what? Yeah. You should be you're altruistic. You're very strategic, you're very helpful. You're proactive in your approach. Jason: 21:23

You move with speed. You follow up and. Your job is all about that. So again, it doesn't feel like a grind for you. It doesn't feel awkward and clunky. It actually feels smooth and you're doing what you love to do. Michael: Yeah. And that's just it. There when I took your your test and then I, and then you said, Hey, I wanna play back the results for you. Michael: Which I very much appreciate. Thank you for doing that. The thing I felt was relief because what you said is yeah that's who I am. And it didn't make me feel like I had to be somebody else. Yeah. 'cause it was like, yeah, that I agree with that. I agree with the assessment and it's just amazingly accurate in

my opinion it was. Michael: And so that, that actually, when I think about that for. Just anybody starting their day, like you said, do they feel in control or do they feel outta control? Yeah. And some of that outta control might be that they are either approaching the job wrong or they're in the wrong job. That sense. And no one likes, no one can sustain that one. Michael: 22:23

That's where, stress in the workplace has burnout. All that stuff happens, but we all wanna be in control. And when we walk in it you, when you feel that, you whatever comes at me, I'm gonna deal with it. And there are people that don't, I don't think they have the skills to do that because they haven't been trained that it's gonna, it's gonna be okay. Michael: Or maybe, like you said, they're in the wrong position, which is interesting. I think the it. I'm, I was just trying to think when, after you and I talked, what if you would've told me that's not who I was? What would I have done? And I'm guessing you face that a lot, right? Michael: Somebody says wait a minute. No. I identify as an aggressive go-getter. And you're saying I'm more analytical. I meaning what, what go, what does that process look like? Jason: Yeah. So when I do an assessment on anybody, I get three graphs on them, right? So I

get I get a graph that we call the self. Jason: That's their DNA. That's how they're hardwired. That's how they behave 95% of the time. We get a second graph, which is very important, and it's called the self-concept. And the self-concept is a 90 to 120 day rear view. Look at that person's world and life and what's coming at them and how they're behaving based on their current circumstances. Jason: 23:23

Usually in those two graphs I can actually see, hey, here's who the person is, but here's how they're acting. And then we have a, then we have a talk, Michael, about is what you're doing sustainable? Because we can, we're human beings, we're smart, right? We can flex our behaviors and be who we need to be in any situation, however, how sustainable is that? Jason: So then I'd have a conversation and I do have these conversations with people and saying, Hey, how engaged are you right now? Are you actually, are you actually happy? And when you ask the right questions in the right way, Michael: yep. Jason: You'd be surprised how honest people actually get they actually pour it out to you because they're just they're not happy. Jason:

And I am a, I'm a believer that you can see somebody's passion or if they're happy just through a conversation with them as well, because. Their behaviors are mimicked through kind of their body language and how they're talking. If you're just mailing it in, I know, at the time you're probably just mailing it in. Jason: And then I have a question on, Michael how engaged are you right now? Because true engagement is everybody's pulling the rope, right? Michael: Yeah. So Jason: If you're thinking of a game of tug of war here's what's scary, if you have 10 people on your team, we have probably six or seven of those guys. Jason: 24:23

On the rope pulling with all their might. Yeah. We might have two or three of those people actually, just hanging onto the rope and one's not even hanging onto the rope at all. They're just, they're just trying to actually. Get over this game and Michael: just go through the motion. Jason: Yeah. Go through the motion, right? Michael: Yeah. That's a good analogy. I like that. And I think it applies to our personal lives too, because, on this podcast we've had a lot of guests that either talk about fitness programs or other programs to self-improvement. And think about that. Michael: If your personality and who you are. Isn't

a marathoner, but you're trying to tell yourself to be a marathoner. Then you're gonna have some in internal conflict along the way. Absolutely. And you're not gonna feel passionate about it. And I think we've all started something, whether it's fitness or something else that we didn't finish. Michael: Probably not so much because we didn't. We didn't lack determination, it just wasn't a good fit for us. We just didn't Yeah. Whatever it was, the environment or the people or whatever. Jason: Sure. Michael: 25:23

I think that applies and it actually, when you were saying that, it was interesting 'cause we I think one of our last guests might have been a guest or two back we're marriage counselors. Michael: Not necessarily counselors. They helped facilitate conversa open conversations and, I guarantee you the conversations we had with them, and you are probably very similar 'cause it's about people working together to fi figure out what how to make it work. Yeah. Jason: Whether it's a marriage, whether it's a a baseball team, football team work team. Jason: It's all teams. It's all people dynamics and relationships. And then how we're gonna work together, we work with a lot of sports teams, right? So we work with the Montreal Canadians, we've worked with Tampa Bay Lightning, Detroit Red Wings. We've worked with baseball teams we and it's

amazing when you change the team dynamic, whether it's one person or whether it's five people or whatever. Jason: Yeah. The engagement changes. The engagement changes, right? Yeah. People will say to me, that team, I can't believe it. They went. To the World Series last year and this year they, they barely, yeah. This year they barely made the made the playoffs. And I'll say, okay, but there was changes on that team. Jason: 26:23

And they'll say, no, there wasn't. We just changed a, a shortstop or we just changed a right fielder. And I'll say, no you changed more than that. But even if you just change the shortstop, that changes the dynamic in the locker room. Yeah. Yeah. And then what I work with leadership teams on is what is their locker room look like? Michael: Yeah. Jason: So the locker room is where the locker room is, where you're allowed to challenge and respectfully challenge each other and get alignment. But once you're aligned and you're leaving that locker room, you should actually be bulletproof, right? Yeah. And that means we're all aligned and we're singing the same tune. Michael: Yeah. So that, that's, I pointed up here 'cause that's the Texas Rangers when they won the World Series in 23. Lifelong fan. So it was amazing for me and my

father 'cause we just love the Rangers, but then they haven't done anything since. Really. And it's interesting because what you just said, I was driving last night and I was listening to a local sports radio show and they were interviewing people and they were talking about the difference in the clubhouse. Michael: 27:23

Yeah. That they're having fun, that they're more aligned and they get serious about the right things at the right time. And it's interesting because they weren't having the, they weren't saying those things in the years they were down. So maybe this year is our year because they're at least in balance today. Michael: Yeah. They're in balance today in the locker room. So sorry for your jokes if we beat them. Jason: Yeah, no, I I gotta tell you, I, you don't have to say sorry 'cause you won't beat them and I just joking. We're the same way with the Js. People look at the JS last year. And they were shocked that the LA Dodgers were not expecting that team that came at them in the World Series. Jason: And it was all done through culture and just dynamics. And that team had such a intimate, caring for each other, and it was just like, okay, this person's injured. Okay, who's stepping up? Yeah.

Or this happened, okay, we're not out of this game right now. Let's just keep going. And game seven World Series, it was like a hangover happened in the city. Jason: It was just, yeah, it felt dark and heavy the next day, right? But what a ride, right? And it was all driven through people, team engagement and culture. Michael: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that, and you can have that in your company too. We're about at time here. I enjoyed this conversation. We probably should have another session where we just talk about baseball and team culture. Michael: 'cause I Jason: Yeah, Michael: 28:23

exactly right. I would love to do that because it that's the fun stuff. And it is a business, but it is people too. And that's across the board. I think. So let me I always ask everybody what is a a habit that Jason will not negotiate it. You do it every day, every week. Michael: It's your core habit. Jason: Yeah I would break that up into a couple things. So I believe as leaders, you're always on stage as leaders, you're always on stage. Okay? And I also believe leadership without title, right? So it doesn't, you don't have to be a big leader, title, ship, touch, do what I say I'm gonna do, but I believe in. Jason: I call it the two a's attitude and activity, right? So wake up, you decide your attitude for the day,

and that attitude will thrive based on the activity you set out for your day and the tone. And then I believe in transparency, right? So be transparent as a leader. Don't be the person that is, and I make sure I'm transparent. Jason: I don't. Hide behind a wall or hide behind a desk or whatnot. Get out. See people, talk to people. Be that vocal and visual leader and it's amazing what happens and and how much better your life is 'cause you learn from people. Michael: Very said. By the way, Brad on LinkedIn said, please talk more about team culture. Jason: Yeah. Michael: 29:23

I think you enjoyed that part of it. Yeah. So yes, Brad we will. And I, hopefully we'll be on your podcast. We can pick it up there. So Jason: you are gonna be on my podcast, so we'll get that date going there. That's the people's playbook. And when we talk about companies, everybody will talk about the SOPs and the standards about, sometimes what they forget about is, Hey, what's your people playbook? Jason: Yeah, like what is the actual, like how are you actually driving culture in your organization? So you can actually, get to your results a little quicker. Culture, it has a direct line to results for sure. Michael: Yeah. And you enjoy it more

when you get there together. So that's great. Michael: So what, how do people find you? What if they want to talk, pick up a conversation, talk with you, Jason, about Jason: Yeah. They can hook. They can go to my LinkedIn and send me a message and just, they can actually put your name in there too. Michael, they can actually say, Hey, saw you on Michael Cups podcast the Habit Architect. Jason: 30:23

You can also email me direct jTaylor@predictivesuccess.com. So jTaylor@predictivesuccess.com. And yeah, I'm pretty, pretty fast at getting back to people because I like companies to function well. And make that a, that leadership team and that overall team thrive through engagement. Michael: Absolutely. And having gray hair. I've lived on teams that were not aligned and teams that were aligned, and the second is so much more fun and powerful and they achieve great things. So thanks for leading the way with with some of that team culture and communication really. So thanks a lot, Jason, for being here. Michael: Everybody, please do go to your, when you're listening to this podcast, do your favorite subscribe, like whatever their pro, whatever their platform is, and do