S03 EP02 with Joey Chandler - When Values Run the System

Michael Cupps kicks off episode two of Season 3 with Joey Chandler, founder of Certain Growth Solutions and creator of the Alignment Engine framework. Chandler walks through how identifying three core values (not goals, not categories) changes the way people show up under stress, at 3am, and everywhere in between.

The conversation covers the six-question process Chandler built after his own burnout, how those questions work as both a performance tool and a recovery tool, and what happens when someone's public persona drifts away from what they actually value. Chandler shares a client story about a divorce, a TikTok following built on anger, and the choice to walk away from what wasn't working.

Cupps and Chandler also dig into AI: what changes when you feed your values into a tool like Claude or Gemini, and why the same technology that makes AI more useful to you is the technology that could replace you if you're not careful about what you're actually asking it to do.

The episode closes with Chandler's own answer to the Season 3 signature question: what he's handed off to AI, and why.

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Transcript

Hello, and welcome to The Habit Architect. Great to have you here today. It is episode two of season three, so if you missed it, we had season our season changed over and season three started last week with Jared Webb, who was talking about understanding signals and leaning that into how you support your customers, how you grow your company and things like that. Cupps: 0:35

It was a great episode and we're really excited if you go back and watch that. Just a reminder, please do share, all the good stuff you do for our podcast. We appreciate any and all of that as we try to continue to promote and find new audiences. It relies on you. Don't forget to ask questions today live if you want to. Cupps: Just if you're on LinkedIn, you can just ask it through the comments section. If you're on YouTube, the same thing, and we take all questions live. Our guest today is Joey, and he's gonna introduce himself because I don't wanna misjudge some of his concepts, but he is a values expert. And as you guys know, in the book that I wrote and things we talk about, we had a conversation with Meg not too long ago about values and the importance of values. Cupps:

If you're going to stick to things, if you're going to create a new habit, if it's not tied to a value, it probably won't stick, and Joey's an expert in this, and we're gonna talk about that more. He has something that he's gonna talk about called the alignment engine, which I went through last night. Cupps: It's a great way to kinda check your values, if you will, and certain growth solutions. So I'm gonna let him do a full introduction. Why don't we bring Joey on board? While we're doing that, while he's coming from backstage, again, just do and we appreciate Time Bandit. Go, do look for that priority matrix. Cupps: 1:35

If you haven't downloaded that yet get on that I think we're getting... There he is. Hey, Joey. How are you? Joey Chandler: I'm doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on. Cupps: Yeah, it's fantastic, 'cause this is a topic that I've talked about a lot, and I touched parts of it, but I'm really looking forward to going deep. Cupps: And, when people are watching The Habit Architect, and especially the previous senior- seasons, it was about building habits, getting prioritization right. And I think if you don't get val- if it's not tied to a value, it all falls apart. So I'm looking forward to the deep dive here. Joey Chandler: Yeah, it's really

interesting, 'cause the way I look at it is we have basically two choices. Joey Chandler: We're either operating from our values or operating from some doubt or fear. And I hadn't really put it together, but when you talk about time bandit, operating from your doubts and fears totally sucks up your time. Yeah. And when you operate from your values, it just- Yeah ... allows you... you're not always perfect, but it allows you to save so much time, you're so less stressed. Joey Chandler: 2:35

So I think that, that time bandit part, I hadn't pieced that together, but it's- Yeah ... 100%. Your values are like, I don't know, they're like the Lone Ranger to the time bandits. Cupps: That's fantastic. Why don't we start by you, you just introducing yourself? How did you get here? And I mentioned Certain Growth Solutions, but I'm sure you can do justice to it better than I did. Joey Chandler: Yeah. So my name is Joey Chandler, and I'm the founder of Certain Gro- Growth Solutions. And we help entrepreneurs and founders and business owners, i- basically clarify their values and make greater use of them so they can spend less time dealing with their doubts, their fears, their worries and various blocks. Joey Chandler: And what I have found is that

ev- every business owner has a goal, whether it be a long-term goal to grow their business or a short-term goal to get out a podcast or do sales. And as soon as you think of a goal, there's gonna be some doubt or fear. Yeah. "I'm not good enough. I don't have what it takes. Joey Chandler: This won't work out. I don't have enough hair." Whatever it is. And they're not reasonable, they're not logical, they, but they just, they are very real to us. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And what I found is rather than trying to fight through them and power through them and rah, that sort of thing, you can acknowledge them. Joey Chandler: 3:35

Say, "Hey, I feel like I suck today," or whatever it is, and then you can say, "What do my values say to do?" And your values will always give you aligned action. They'll give you something actionable, and it'll help you move forward, and it just saves so much time and energy. Cupps: Yeah, I like that. I like that. Cupps: It's a categorization and gets you reset. But so values is an overused word, unfortunately. And anytime politicians start using it, it becomes really a homogenized word, unfortunately, because you hear people throw out, we do family values, and all these val- values. But w- what would you say is the definition of values as an

individual? Joey Chandler: Yeah. To me your your values represent who you are at your core, and they really represent who you are at your very best. My values are connection, curiosity, and fun, and when I'm being my best, I'm bringing aspects of those to to my life. Yeah. And it's, I'm not 100% perfect at it. Joey Chandler: I don't think any of us are in our values, but once you get clear on them, and I think it's important that we get them down to three. That's because three are just easier to remember. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And when you can s- when you're having trouble or when you wanna be at your best, you can say, "Okay, hey, what's going on here? Joey Chandler: 4:35

What do my values say to do?" And it just gives you a system to just keep bringing your best self forward. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: Because again, it, to me, it comes down to two things. We're either operating off of some doubt or fear- Cupps: Yeah ... Joey Chandler: or we're operating off our values. There's not a lot in between. And when you and the problem is that our values are more powerful than our fears, absolutely, but our fears are louder than our values. Joey Chandler: Yeah. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: They're the ones screaming at you. And that's- Yeah ... and the part that I really started to see, I used to be someone who's "Okay, I gotta get I gotta get rid of my fears."

There's something wrong with me because- Yeah ... I question myself. I have imposter syndrome. Joey Chandler: But in, in this, doing this work and doing research y- just in the brain our amygdala, the lizard part of our brain, our fears are just natural parts of our life. They're as they are as im- they are as foundational to our life as our joy and our happiness. Yeah. So we can't push them away. Joey Chandler: Yeah. So what we can do is acknowledge them, "Hey, I feel like I s- you know, the fear in my head today is I suck. I'm not good enough. I don't have what it takes." Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: 5:35

Thank you. Put you aside. What do values say to do? And go on. Cupps: Yeah. That's great. And it's interesting because I've done some workshops where people go through a hierarchy of values exercise, and what strikes me with that always is they pick the... Cupps: let's just say the top three, family, health, and wealth, right? But those aren't really values. Those are categories, right? Or th- and but what you're talking about are you mentioned yours, curiosity and fun. I didn't hear the first one. But you mentioned three that, that aren't talking about a big category of health, right? Cupps: It's who you are. That, and there's a differentiation there, and I think that

it's worth talking a l- little bit about. Joey Chandler: Yeah. I think the health, wealth, and health, wealth, and relationships, those are essentially goals. Yeah. I want to, I wanna have an X number of dollars. I wanna have a certain type of relationship. Joey Chandler: I want, to look a certain way and ha- weigh a certain thing. Those are goals. Super important. But and the reason it... but they aren't who you are. Yeah ... what happens is if you think about, if your values, and I don't know where our values come from. It could be a spirit, a soul, a god, an energy. Joey Chandler: 6:35

It could be just the way our, our- Yeah ... through evolution. I don't debate, where they come from. I just know that we had them when we were young. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: So they, so a lot of people will pick words like integrity or authenticity, something that's th- Yeah ... that sounds great. Joey Chandler: But I know when you were 10, 12, 14 years old, you weren't thinking of those things at all. Joey Chandler: And s- Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: Exactly. And and it's, and so we we want language that lands true to you in your heart and your gut rather than our heads. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And so when you're working with these entrepreneurs, How, are, do you find that they're misaligned with that concept of values? Cupps: What,

what... Walk me through just how you get a new customer that feels like they're out of touch. So what transforms? Joey Chandler: Yeah. So the first thing we do is we identify their values, and you went through the process. You, we get three values and it's fun. This only takes about three, three questions to do. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And then we really it's the exact same process. We use these six questions, which I call the alignment engine, and essentially we're saying, "Hey, what's the goal that you have? I want to grow my business. I want increased sales. I want..." Whatever their goal is. And then we ask, "What's the fear that comes up regarding that goal?" Cupps: 7:35

Yeah. Joey Chandler: And that will, we would just acknowledge that, and then we say, "What do your values say to do?" And we explore that question of what do your values say to do as a brainstorming exercise. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: So let's say I, I want to increase my, my sales. I would say, okay, how can I bring some connection, some creativity or sorry- Yeah Joey Chandler: connection, curiosity, and fun to that. And the way I look at core values is they're like our primary colors. You know- Ah ... with primary, you know with primary colors- yeah ... there's three colors, but they create the entire spectrum of the what we see. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And your

values are the same way. Joey Chandler: So maybe you're not bringing 100% curiosity, but you're bringing 50% and 25% connection and 25% fun, and that will create something that you need in that space. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. That's a great way of looking at it. And actually I did go through your alignment thing, and I did it wrong 'cause I was thinking I was thinking what people think of me versus what I really want, my values. Cupps: Oh. Joey Chandler: Yeah. Cupps: 8:35

So I'm gonna go back and do it again. Okay, perfect. But I was thinking, you know what I was thinking at that moment, when you feel good joy, what is happening, and I was thinking what people were thinking, not what I was thinking, right? Yeah. So it's... i'll go back through it. I promise I'll do it, and w- maybe we can redo another session too later. Cupps: But you, you talk about, and I think this is big for entrepreneurs and any business leader, anybody that's in a leadership role, the 3:00 AM problem. I'd love to dig into that perspective from you. Joey Chandler: Yeah. Yeah. This was one that came up last, last, basically b- beginning part of this year. Joey Chandler: You wake up, you're a business owner, you wake up and all of a sudden things are racing through your brain. I gotta do this. I got... And they're generally thoughts that you don't

know how to resolve. Like our brains are always trying to solve something, and I think what happens is that we have this problem, how do I increase my sales? Joey Chandler: And we just don't know how to do it. If we knew how to do it, we wouldn't be worried about it, right? So our brain wakes up at 3:00 and it starts racing around. It starts just doing whatever, you know- Yeah ... whatever our brains do. And a while back I woke up, I was thinking of something and I didn't know what it was. Joey Chandler: 9:35

But I went through these six questions and I'll share the questions with you and it was one of those things, I was like laying in bed, like I'm like, "I don't know if this will work, but I know this helps bring certainty in my life- Yeah ... so I'm just gonna give it a try." This was really just... So the first question I always ask is, what can I celebrate about yesterday? Joey Chandler: So I was laying in bed and I was like, "What can I celebrate?" And honestly, I don't remember what it was, but you know- Yeah ... let's say I, I did something. And then we ask, what did you learn from that? And that would give me a lesson. And you ask those two questions because celebration triggers dopamine in your brain, and what you learn from that gives you a sense of accomplishment and puts you into- Yeah Joey Chandler: a growth mindset. Cupps:

Yeah. Joey Chandler: Then you ask, what's my goal? And I, at the time, I'm sure I was thinking about sales or, trying to grow my business. And you know- Yeah ... that was my goal. What's the fear? And at the moment, it was... At that time, it was usually like, "I suck. There's nothing I can do. This isn't gonna work." Joey Chandler: 10:35

You know- Yeah ... those sorts of thoughts. And then what do my values say to do? And I, connection, curiosity and fun, and went through. And then it gave me something. It, and what happened was is I did that for a couple of days. I just started doing that, and what I found is initially it would allow me to fall back to sleep because my brain would then have an answer. Joey Chandler: You know- Yeah ... whatever it was, I was like, "Okay, I, I can do that thing, and let me go I can do that in the morning," and my brain would fall asleep and I would get back to sleep. And then the most interesting thing is I found myself sleeping through the night. You know- Yeah ... I would go to bed at 10:00 or 11:00. Joey Chandler: I started waking up at 5:00 or 6:00, which is, for me a kind of a full night's sleep. Yeah. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And I was shocked 'cause I was like, "Wait a minute. Just a couple of days ago I was waking up at 3:00." And I think what was happening is when

your brain knows that you have a system to resolve something, it doesn't get worried. Joey Chandler: It doesn't have to- Yeah ... know the answer. It just has to know that you can figure out the answer. Yeah. And by doing those questions over and over again, it just allows you to, your brain to relax. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And when your brain- Yeah. That's- ... can relax, it will, you know- That's interesting ... it'll get grounded and you can move on. Cupps: 11:35

And it's the f- it's those fear, fear things in our mind that we're s- w- that's really bring... keeping us up at night that you talked about earlier. It's it's maybe even uncalled for fear, but we're, it's what... our brain is going what about this? What about this?" Cupps: And, "Oh, my goodness, what are we gonna do here?" And it just breaks us up. So mine is not waking up at 3:00, it's actually getting to sleep because I, sometimes I have to get up and do a meditation or Tai Chi or something just to say, okay, get my mind in a different place. But I really like what you did because you, you resolved it with, through your questions. Joey Chandler: Yeah. Yeah. Cupps: That's fascinating. Yeah. Joey Chandler: And the fun part is that you can practice this in what I call safe areas of life. It might be difficult to do this the... if you got a big problem on your mind and you can't get to sleep, it might be

difficult if this is the very first time you're doing it just takes a little practice. Joey Chandler: But you can do it. You're like, "Hey, I wanna have a great day. I wanna do a great podcast. Let me go through the questions. Let me just see what, what shows up." Yeah. And you can practice it in the safe areas. Then under times of stress, like 3:00 AM or going to sleep, you're like, "Let, okay, let me..." You can trust yourself more. Joey Chandler: 12:35

You go through the process- Yeah ... and you'll get more grounded in your values. They'll tell you what to do, and you'll be able to get back to sleep or at least come up with a plan. Cupps: Yeah. And again, that, that would probably work with alignment of your projects too, because, so many people today w- because of all the media and everything that hits us, we have more ideas than we have capacity to deliver on those ideas, right? Cupps: And particularly for an entrepreneur, ideas are good but if it changes your focus every two or three days, then you're gonna f- you're gonna waver off the path, right? So you could also use that exercise to make sure that you're tying it back to the values to stay focused on. Cupps: And most of the time, if you build a product or system or

whatever it is that you're selling, you're probably the, don't give up on it too quickly, is probably one of the biggest things that entrepreneurs do, right? Joey Chandler: Absolutely. A- any good project, anything worthwhile, you're going to bump up against a doubt or a fear at some point. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. Joey Chandler: Y- you just are. Like Taylor Swift talks about f- having fears before going on stage. Yeah. If anyone should have no fears, it should be her. But, she talks about fears. Same thing every performer has, that talks about that they're going to show up. Joey Chandler: 13:35

Yeah. So rather than trying to pretend that they won't or somehow make it feel like you're "I'm a good leader because I don't have any fear"- Yeah ... it's no you have... You're human. You're gonna have fears. Yeah. Let's acknowledge those fears and move on. And a lot of things like procrastination chas- chasing after the shiny object, imposter syndrome non... Joey Chandler: There's anxiety that is clinical anxiety. There... And that's a whole different, we're not talking- Yeah ... about that. But that general anxiousness, Yeah ... that is y- you know, quote, "normal anxiousness,"

all of those are based on you're spending more energy focused on a fear or a doubt- Yeah ... rather than your values. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And so if someone's bouncing all around, I... This was... I actually had a client who, this was a guy who, he would... he ran a PR agency, and he would go to a workshop or read a book, and this guy from day one, he would implement it. It would just be like boom, and it was awesome. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: But there was this thing. He would implement it, and then after a week or two, something wouldn't work right. It just would be off. Cupps: 14:35

Yeah. Joey Chandler: And then he'd read another book or do another workshop, and he would implement it. Awesome. Yeah. But again- Yeah ... it and and it was this weird thing 'cause he was really progressing. Joey Chandler: You never could argue with his progression, but the end result wasn't working. Joey Chandler: It... and so we looked at this and we kept exploring his values, which were love, harmony, and fun. Joey Chandler: And at a certain point- He came, he's "I got it." And what he realized is that he wasn't trusting himself. He wasn't loving himself, essentially. Joey Chandler: Yeah. He was looking

for wisdom from someb- from other people. Yeah. And because he was skilled and because he was talented, he would execute. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: But, and what he started doing is, how can I create my business that has love, harmony, and fun for me, my clients, and my staff? And he just started exploring. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: What did it take? And one of his great moments, he had two awesome moments. One was when he's "I've brought all of my technology in-house. We now manage the sales process. We d- we now know our outreach." He was so happy, 'cause it was him. Cupps: 15:35

Yes, it's his voice, and Joey Chandler: that- It's his voice, his everything. Joey Chandler: And he actually started... he now tells clients, "If I don't think we're gonna have love, harmony, and fun together, w- we don't... i'll say thanks but no thanks." Cupps: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's... and that's, it I like where you, where, what you assessed is, it was his self-love. His, h- his, he didn't have the trust in himself that he needed to kinda carry through with what his values represent. Cupps: That's fantastic. Is that what the alignment engine is all about? 'Cause I was, that was my next

question, and I think you kinda... W- tell us about the alignment engine. Joey Chandler: Yeah, so the alignment engine really came out of my experience of burning out. I, ... about four years ago I burnt out really bad, and I- bit of a longer story, but I ultimately started to ask myself, "What do my values say to do each day?" Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: So it was how can I bring a little connection, curiosity, and fun? And I would just ask myself, "What can I do?" Yeah. And when I burnt out, it was, I could get up, I could go to the bathroom, I could drink water and get back into bed, 'cause that's all I could do. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: 16:35

And but I eventually recovered and I started looking at, and started exploring, like, how did I do that? Joey Chandler: Because I didn't do any yoga, I didn't do any meditation, I didn't do any of the anti-burnout things that you would normally- Yeah ... associate with a burnout recovery program. And what I realized, it was, one, knowing your values. That's one thing. But it was really that question of how can I use them today that gave me the process of every day of using it, and that's what made the difference. Joey Chandler: Not knowing my values. That helped, but it was the implementation of my values that made the difference. And so then I went to work and I was like, "How can I do this every day?" Because if I can bring my values every

day, I can recover from burnout, I can prevent burnout, and I can get more done. Cupps: Yep. Joey Chandler: And it took me many you know, this was not a one-time... Joey Chandler: This was not a wake up on a Sunday and have it all figured out by Monday thing. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. This was, like, multiple years of, essentially trying and retrying. But I came up with these six questions. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: The first question is always what can you celebrate about yesterday? Joey Chandler: And then the second is what can you learn from it? That is, that triggers the dopamine and puts you in a growth mindset. That, that primes the pump, so to speak. Cupps: Yep. Joey Chandler: 17:35

Then you ask what is the goal that you have? And this could be a business goal, it could be a personal goal, it can be a fitness goal, but you just wanna be, like, clear. Joey Chandler: And that gives you direction and focus. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: Then as soon as you set the goal, it's, hey, what am I what fear comes up? 'Cause we wanna acknowledge those fears, because they're gonna be louder than our values. And then the fifth question is what do our values say to do? And this is where it's having three values is really helpful, because it's just easy to remember them, you could explore, you can do a bit of brainstorming. Joey Chandler: And then after you do that the sixth question is w- from that list of

ideas, what's one action I can take today? Cupps: Yep. Joey Chandler: And when you take that a- when you identify something that you can do, that will trigger your intrinsic motivation. Yeah. So not only do you have more clarity in what it is to do to move yourself forward in your project, you have the confidence and energy that you'll actually do it. Cupps: 18:35

Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. I like to just do the first thing. I teach that a lot, and especially with procrastination. You d- you don't have to do the whole project. Just do one thing and what happens then is mentally you start going, "Okay, yeah, I can do the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing," and before you know it, the project's where it needs to be, right? Cupps: And that's such an important concept that you just mentioned there. And I... the burnout factor, though that that's happened to a lot of people. It's happened and usually what the instruction is get balance, and I've always found that to be a hard word to put my head around because balance ach- means everything's in equal weight, right? Cupps: And it's just how do you do that, right? Joey Chandler: Yeah. I think one of the there's a lot of people that have done a lot of great work on burnout, and so I, I don't wanna dismiss any of their work. Yeah.

But a lot of the anti-burnout prevention programs- ... the burnout recovery programs, they're exhausting. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: They're like, figure out balance and, then go to yoga, do yoga three days a week and do meditation this, and then journal this and set boundaries. If you could do all those things, you would've done them. Yeah. And one thing that burning out really taught me as a coach is that if I can't hear what you're saying, I can't do it. Joey Chandler: 19:35

Yeah. And so I really worked on those six questions. Those are the absolute minimum that you need to consistently bring your values to a situation. Yeah. So I do everything I can, and I just think can I hear... yeah, if someone said, "You need to have more balance in your life," when I was laying in bed and I had nothing, I'd be like, "Screw you." Joey Chandler: What balance- Yeah ... is just spreading my legs out on the, on the bed. Yes. Yeah. That's all I can do. Yeah. And but this is ultimately what it comes down to me is a very simple thing. Yeah. This is I can't say it's impossible 'cause there's always some scenario where it might happen, but it is

extremely difficult to burn out if you're taking actions that align with your values. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. Joey Chandler: You, you- Exactly. Yeah ... and you may have days where you're tired, you may have days where you're exhausted- Yeah ... you may have days where you're frustrated, for sure, but that ongoing, consistent pervasive sense of exhaustion and frustration and overwhelm and hopelessness that really drives burnout, that can't happen- Cupps: Yeah Joey Chandler: on, when you're operating off your values and you have a system to do that. Cupps: 20:35

Yeah. That's fanta- and that's a great message. I'm glad you brought that up. And I'll, I kinda wanna talk about the flip side of that too because, and I'll tell you my personal experience. I had some health issues, and I kinda let myself go, and then I had a hip replacement which I shouldn't have had to do that in my 50s, and then I had a bike, a bicycle accident, broke my collarbone in a lot of places. Cupps: And so there were a lot of things, and I gave myself the excuse that, I'm not as healthy as I should be because of all these things. But then last year, and I'll tell you a success story, last year I decided I got back from a trip from France with Catherine, and I said, "I don't like how I feel." Cupps: And I got a new digital scale, and it showed me that my metabolic age

was actually seven years older than I was, right? And I was thinking how can this be?" I just didn't see myself that way. And so what I, what really worked for me to get healthier was not lose weight or run a marathon. Cupps: It was, I don't wanna be that old, today. I'll get that old, but I wanna get that old, I wanna be that age. And when I'm this age, I need to be this age, and today I got on that same scale and I'm two years, metabolic age is two years younger than I actually am. So feel really good. But th- but what I did is I tied a value to it, and it wasn't an obscure external value. Cupps: 21:35

It was, I wanna be healthy to, I wanna be my age kinda thing. And I, so I resonate with what you're saying, and I don't know if you see that too where it's not about preventing something, it's about going, doing something for me, spectacular, right? Joey Chandler: Yeah. No, 100%. Your values can work on both ends of the, like when you're totally exhausted and burnt out, and when you want, when you're trying to raise your game. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: I'm guessing you were probably look, you probably look better than m- many people in shape. You... But for you, you weren't, and so you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna raise my game, x- Yeah ...

x percentage." And this is the fun part. Your the Lyman Engine is not only a way that you can use to get going and succeed, but it also works as a recovery tool because we all have off days, off weeks- Yeah Joey Chandler: heck, even o- you know, off months, right? Yeah. We all have that, and the really interesting part is once you get those questions and you kind, you memorize them and you have them part of your life- you have a bad week. It happens. Yeah. You eat whatever you eat, you do whatever you do. Joey Chandler: Like- Cupps: Yeah ... Joey Chandler: 22:35

you can, you then can take a deep breath. What can I celebrate about yesterday? What did I learn from it? What's my goal? My goal is to get back into doing- Yeah ... whatever it is you're doing. Yeah. And you go through that process, and there's no shame, there's no guilt. In fact- ... Joey Chandler: There are things that you will learn from recovering, from failing and then recovering, that you wouldn't have learned had you been perfect at it. Cupps: Yeah. That's fantastic. Do you have an example of that, maybe one of your customers? Joey Chandler: One let me see here. I'm trying to think of the, yeah, the so I had a guy who was a... He he went through a tough divorce. And he turned to TikTok, and TikTok

really applauded him for his anger. Joey Chandler: Yeah ... like it just went it just went. And and he got a ton of following and all these people- Yeah ... that were, "Yeah, you're right," just all sorts of stuff. Yeah. Cupps: And Joey Chandler: he came to me. He's "This is... I love the attention, I love the business aspect of this, but this is... Joey Chandler: 23:35

i'm not- It doesn't align ... this is not me. This is not me." Yeah. And he's "I d- I didn't know what to do." And so we went through his values, and his values were contribution, creativity, and connection. And and we just started just exploring them "How can you do this?" And then he had to make a choice. Joey Chandler: Like- Yeah ... he really did have to... it was a tough choice, 'cause he had, he was growing a business based off of this- Cupps: Yeah ... Joey Chandler: this influx of followers. Big fast. And he had to make a choice. He said "I'm either gonna live true to my values, or I'm gonna live true to this, I'm gonna feed that machine." Joey Chandler: And- Yeah ... it took him a while. This was not like, again, this was not like a one-day sort of thing. Cupps: Yeah, Joey Chandler: sure. He... We took some time, and he went and he's "I'm gonna make this choice." And he's "I'm gonna live true to my values." And then over the

next few months, he would, we, I would watch his, the videos that he did on TikTok, and he would do some, that were, that were- yeah Joey Chandler: contributing. And then he'd be like, "Mother..." He would fall back into it. And he'd, we'd la- we'd have to laugh about it. We'd take a deep breath. Sure. "Okay." Yeah. "And then let's go back." And then recently he was so happy because his his boys came to him, and he's, they're like, "Dad, Mom's dating somebody and she doesn't want us to tell you about it." Joey Chandler: Like- Cupps: Yeah ... Joey Chandler: 24:35

and you're happy that your kid is telling you, being honest- Yeah, exactly ... with you. And it's kinda fun, it's kinda cute. Yeah ... but he was also like, he was also like he was, he went through a bunch of stuff. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: But instead of that anger he took it and he just was honest about it. Joey Chandler: He did a video on just what that experience was like for him. Yeah. And it turned out to be one of his most impactful videos. Cupps: Oh, Joey Chandler: that's great. And that, and that was just like, it was just like baby step. Not, there was no like single epiphany moment. It was just like- Yeah Joey Chandler: doing the work. Cupps: And that's important, right? People that may be listening and thinking about this it doesn't happen overnight. It's a consistency that's matter. I always say it's, it, we're not

going for perfection, we're going for consistency here, right? Yeah. And that's that's that story of life. Cupps: So let's talk about technology a bit. So technology in that case, You probably gave him a good outlet, but he ultimately realized it wasn't his values. AI is upon us now, and I know you have a pers- perspective on AI and how it aligns or doesn't align and how you can use it. So do you want to share some of that? Joey Chandler: 25:35

Yeah. So the, if you spend any time on LinkedIn right now, or you spend any time talking to people who are trying to figure out what's next in AI, 'cause clearly it's a force that's going to be with us for, quite a while. And the question is how do you bridge the AI human divide? Joey Chandler: Because right now there's a lot of people who are just like, they're creating papers, they're creating content, they're creating books, they're creating everything, and it's really not them creating it, it's just the AI is just spewing out all sorts of things And there's also a ton of people who are exhausted and overwhelmed by the- Yeah Joey Chandler: what's possible out of this, and they're also feeling way behind. They're like, "I've I'm, it's too late for me." And AI is bringing up a ton of

fears. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: There's lots of talk, like I am literally training AI to take my job. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. Joey Chandler: It ha- it'd be really hard to operate in that. Joey Chandler: I think it's fair to say it'd be really hard to operate in that environment. Joey Chandler: And so there's lots of people wondering, like how do we do this? And what I found, and I did this just naturally, is you take your core values and you put them in the custom instructions of your AI of choice. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: 26:35

So my, I use Claude and Gemini mostly. Yeah. And so they have, like I say, my values are connection, curiosity, and fun. I also say this is what they mean to me. Yeah. I give them little details. I say, when I'm struggling, use the six questions, the Lyman Engine, and what ends up happening is that Claude is now a reflection of me. Joey Chandler: Yeah. I'm not getting overwhelmed by... 'Cause Claude can- Yeah ... you ask Claude, like how do I do a marketing plan? You know- Yeah ... it can give you , it can give you- Yeah ... a million different answers, all of which are good. All of which are good. Yeah. Or, ma- mo- many are good. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: But if they don't align

with your values, they're, you're just not gonna do it. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: Or it's gonna take a lot more work. But if you say- Or it's gonna sound Cupps: unnatural, right? Joey Chandler: Yeah. It won't feel natural. It's gonna not sound like Cupps: you. Yeah. Joey Chandler: It won't feel like you. But if you say, "Hey, my values are connection, curiosity, and fun, how do I do," whatever, and then it would, it gives you ideas. Joey Chandler: 27:35

And the coolest thing is that you start to see ideas about different things using your values. Yeah. So it actually helps you grow. Yeah. It helps you expand your understanding of what's possible with curio- like for me, with curiosity or connection in a way that I wouldn't have got by myself. Cupps: Yeah. Cupps: Yeah. And- That, and that's great. I've I use the same footprint you do, Claude and Gemini, and but I've given it instructions, but I haven't given it that le- that level, and that's an, that's a great takeaway for me is that let's go inspect what I've instructed it to do. Is it really my values or something I thought should Joey Chandler: be my values? Joey Chandler: It's something else. Yeah. And then it becomes this real- then it becomes this really interesting, powerful tool. Yeah ... and it, and then it bridges that gap 'cause then the AI becomes a

reflection of who you are rather than you essentially being a prompter for it. Cupps: Yeah. I want to go back to one thing you said there, though that I think is interesting because it is a fear. Cupps: Somebody's sitting there doing something, feeding documents into AI, and they're thinking to themselves, "I'm feeding... My job is going away. Every document I feed in there goes, i, can you, do you see that? Are people... to me, there's still... what's great is I don't wanna do those documents. Cupps: I wanna do something else, but how do you help people get out of that head space that they're- Joey Chandler: 28:35

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting... 'Cause the irony is the more you tell AI about yourself, the more effective it is. But the more you tell it about yourself, the more it can replace you. Yeah. Joey Chandler: There's a there's that back and forth. Yeah. And I think ultimately a- and again, you see this a lot on AI right now, or on LinkedIn right now. Yeah. What ultimately is gonna happen is our ability to grow and be innovative and adaptive and creative, that is gonna allow us to find the answers. Joey Chandler: Yeah. Because someone right now who's sitting there- ... they're feeding an insurance policy into a, the AI, I

can't tell them what, I have no idea what it's gonna say. Yeah. But what I do know is if they sit down and say, "Okay, my goal is to create a business that actually works inside of AI"- Cupps: Yeah Joey Chandler: that will bring up a fear or doubt, then they can say, "Hey, what do my values say to do?" Those will give a potential answer to what they need to do to fi- find things out. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: 29:35

Because we ha- we have to be... the fun part is that we get to be creative. We get to literally m- you can literally make up anything and be like, okay, you could tell either a an app or your, hire a vibe coder and they can have a prototype in, you know- Yeah Joey Chandler: hours, days, you know- yeah ... weeks at the most. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: So there's massive amounts of creativity, but with all that opportunity- comes doubts and fears. Yeah. It's like you, you remember, you're old enough to remember Blockbuster. Yep. It's like you go in, there's a million videos, and you're like, "I can't choose a single one." Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And that the overwhelm of choice. So right now people have massive opp- opportunities. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And given that, plus politics, plus society, plus dating- Yeah ... plus

whatever you wanna add to it- Cupps: Yeah ... Joey Chandler: it ends up this massive overwhelm of fear and we get stuck. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and unfortunately, it i- it is, f- fear is the primary choice- of advertising these days. Yeah. It's you're not gonna do this or you're not gonna be this or, and then, and unfortunately that, that starts to train our brains to avoiding things as opposed to embracing things, yeah. Yeah. I, we do talk a lot about habits on this, on the Habit Architect. Go figure. Cupps: 30:35

I think this aligns so well. The, the habits that stick need to be tied to a value or they're not gonna stick. New Year's resolutions, the biggest problem on Quitter's Day is that they really didn't care. They just thought, "Oh, I should become a runner," and then, but it didn't align so they stop in 21 days or whatever it is. Cupps: So do you see a lot of that w- in your work with habits and values aligning? Joey Chandler: Yeah, the the alignment engine itself is a Charles Duhigg's The Keystone Habit. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: The it's ultimately if you do those six questions, you're triggering celebration, you're triggering growth, you're triggering awareness, like you're triggering a bunch of different things. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And if someone has a habit that they

wanna implement that that they've got, the I wanna be a runner, or, whatever it is, and they haven't been able to do it. They can actually, instead of trying to do the habit, just make a habit of asking those six questions. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And it will always give you the ener- the clarity, the confidence and the energy to go do whatever it is that you- Yeah ... you have to do. Yeah. So the And then also the part, I, and I don't know if this, we haven't talked about this and I don't know if you noticed this. When you created the values, I required what's called a spark wor- I call a spark word. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: 31:35

And this is a value like fun or creativity or adventure or play, something in that realm. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And what that does is, one, that reflects who you were when you were younger, because I don't care how old you were, at some point, fun- Yeah ... play, adventure was part of who you are. And there's work I don't know if you're familiar with Barbara Fredrickson, she does work, she does out of positive psychology. Joey Chandler: And she pointed out that wo- or her research showed that words like adventure and play and creativity, they expand our awareness. So they give us ideas of- Yeah ... in times of in times of

stress back in the day we were getting chased by lions and tigers, we would be we'd have to, we want- Yeah Joey Chandler: we need to be focused. But now when we're in a boardroom or we're dealing with how do we deal with AI, we gotta expand our awareness into the stress. So by including a word like fun, play, creativity in the, in your core values, it brings a sense of fun and play and creativity. Yeah. Joey Chandler: And James Clear actually went on a podcast, I think it was late last year, and he talked about one of the things that wasn't in Atomic Habits was the sense of enjoyment. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: 32:35

And if you don't enjoy doing a habit- Cupps: Yes ... Joey Chandler: you're not gonna do it. Like Exactly ... you might do it for a little while, but y- Yeah Joey Chandler: The continuation of it. Yeah. So by bringing a sense of fun, play, adventure in your values, connecting that with the habit, you're just more likely to do it. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's, and that's fantastic, Joey. I really appreciate that perspective as well. So we are running out of time. Cupps: Oh ... but we close with a question, and you've already answered it, so this may be an unfair question to you, but with in, in the age of AI, and you're thinking about efficiencies

and gains and things like that, what is a task that you either handed off or you plan on handing off to AI that, so you can free up and do other things? Joey Chandler: So right, I haven't gone fully to agents doing all of my, outreach and that sort of thing. And I haven't actually done coaching. There's a lot of coaching programs that say, "Hey, just- Yeah ... and my coaching really is just ask these six questions. That's the- Yeah Joey Chandler: 33:35

that's the q- the... one thing that I have used AI with is actually helping me write a book. Oh, nice. So I'm writing a book on this process and honestly how people can use it to make today better than yesterday. That's the- Yeah ... the theme of the book. And I have really found AI to be helpful as a critique, as someone to push back, say, "Hey- Yeah Joey Chandler: here's something that's, working or not." Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And so as a creative partner, AI has been a tool. I haven't gotten to the point yet where I'm, like, comfortable- Cupps: Yeah ... Joey Chandler: having it do all the outreach. I'm guessing that will happen soon. But right, for right now I really value the ability to get

critique, get feedback, and keep pushing myself. Cupps: Yeah. Joey Chandler: And I'll be honest, there are times I'm like, "Mother God, duh, dah," yeah. And that's when I take a deep breath and I go, I'm like, "Okay, what do my values say to do here?" Yeah. And I'll go through it. Yeah. That's great ... so but, yeah. Cupps: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great answer. That's awesome. Cupps: Tell people how they can find you, how best to interact and work with with your programs. Joey Chandler: 34:35

Yeah. You go to certaingrowth.com and actually there you can go, there's a button there to help you identify values, and it takes about five minutes. You can identify your three values as well as you get the questions- and it will just, you can start to use it. I give all of that away for for free. And if people want support... 'Cause the one thing I will say is that using your values, it, and you said it's about practice. It just is. Yeah. It's a muscle that you build. It's nothing... Nobody's inherently more, has more values than others. Joey Chandler: And so I just, I have an eight-week program where we build up your muscle so that you walk away not only knowing your values and how to use them, but you just have to practice. You're like, "Hey, I can do this." Cupps: Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. Thank you so much, Joey,