The Habit Architect

S03 EP07 with Ken Powell - Discipline Over Motivation

• Michael Cupps • Season 3 • Episode 7

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 36:26

Ken Powell spent 20 years keeping a journal. When he saw something a great seller did that nobody else was teaching, he wrote it down. He never read it front to back until a CEO asked him to train a global salesforce and he had no idea where to start.

What he found became Sales Method. Now it's a book.

In this episode, Michael Cupps and Ken Powell get into why 69% of reps miss quota and why the answer has nothing to do with technology, what forecast accuracy actually reveals about a team's habits, how debriefing a lost deal the way a team watches game film separates the sellers who compound from the ones who plateau, and where AI outreach is creating discipline problems nobody wants to name yet.

Raise the Bar. Step Up.: The Habits of Great Sales Athletes is available now on Amazon. 

Find Ken at salesmethod.com

Produced by A Cheshire Creative.

The Habit Architect is sponsored by Enterprise Diagnostics and Time Bandit

Check out our Live Show Events here: The Habit Architect Live Show

Subscribe to our Newsletter: The Habit Architect Newsletter

Michael Cupps:

Hello, and welcome to The Habit Architect. I'm Michael Kupps, your host as usual. Welcome to this session. And and, I'm really excited about this next conversation because, believe it or not, I worked for this man twenty five, twenty six, maybe thirty years ago. I don't really recall that. Worked we worked at two different companies. We did great together, and he's the things he he taught me, I still use today. So I'm excited to to share some of those, and what he's done since then because that was a long time ago. Anyway, Ken is gonna join us. But before I get to that, be sure to go to timebandit.io, access the web based, priority matrix. It's based on the Eisenhower matrix, but what's really what I'm finding in a lot of conversations these days, people have AI opt They have ideas all the time. And until you put it in a priority matrix and understand which ones you should focus on, it's all just noise. So do do get the web app and, go to timebendit.io where you can also find this podcast and listen to other previous episodes. So let's get to the episode. So Ken Powell is gonna join me here in just a minute. He's the founder of Sales Method, and he just wrote his first book. It's called raise the bar, step up. And behind the scenes, you'll see that we talk a lot about athletes and salespeople and the similarities to that, the habits of great sales athletes. He's spent a career helping people, companies, as well as individual sales reps like me or sales leaders like me, figure out the right way to approach the business, not just a, not just a a a job, but how you actually are successful at this long term. And Ken has a ton of experience with that with big companies. He advises start ups. He does some fractional work. He does a lot. But, listen, we're gonna talk mainly about the method that's put behind it. Hey, Ken. Welcome. Hey, Michael. It's great to be here. Good to see you as always.

Ken Powell:

No kidding. Savannah, we do go way back.

Michael Cupps:

We do go way back. I know. I I I know. I'm gonna say 25, though, so it makes us both look younger. That sounds good.

Ken Powell:

That's about right.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so you've been busy recently. Published your first book.

Ken Powell:

Real exciting for me. It it was a, I don't know, a work in progress. It was an ambition of mine for decades. As a matter of fact, it does go back.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. It

Ken Powell:

goes back to the first company you and I worked for, and I've got a story there.

Michael Cupps:

I don't even

Ken Powell:

know if you know it.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. I don't I don't. But tell me tell why don't you just introduce yourself in general first, and and then we'll get get to that.

Ken Powell:

Yeah. So no. I've I, right now, have a sales excellence practice. That's my focus. My swim lane literally is helping sellers, sales leaders get on top of their game, literally raising the bar and stepping up. And that's what it's been all about for me for my entire career. As you know, we're striving to make the number, and we wanna shift the entire curve to the right, and we raise the bar. And then we all have to step up. So that that's what I've been doing with a lot of companies, and now I'm on my own. It's really exciting. I I am I have a affiliation with a practice called CXO Partners, which is a couple 100 operating partners where my practice I'm I've I've parked it there for a lot of reasons, you know, but that's that's what I'm doing now, and it's exciting.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. It is exciting. And so, let's let's start by the kind of the I I do I do recall that you talked about the sales method, you know, twenty five years ago, and it was the foundation of how we found a rhythm to work together Yep. And our teams to work together. But what was interesting when I when I read about how you got to this book, you you went back and looked at journal that you that you've been keeping for for years. And, that was kind of the motivation to get the book done, I I think. And then you said you found kinda two paths in it. So kinda tell us a little bit about that.

Ken Powell:

Yes. So what so it was at a company that you and I were both at. The CEO called me up and asked me to train the Salesforce. And I said, I said, I'm not a trainer. I've got I'm not gonna do anything special. And he said, no. You guys are, and you were part of my team. Yeah. They said, we could take your forecast to the bank, and you have the lowest discount across the globe. Whatever you guys are doing, I want everybody else to do it. Yep. And so I grabbed that journal for the first time during that year, and I sat in my office. And I looked at it because I had gone to the bookstores and looked at the self help books on sales, and they were all like, be like me and you two would be great.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

And I'm like, no. That wasn't that's not at all what we're doing here. So I looked at the journal, and I written things over and over. It's very funny. Year one to year 10, you would find I repeated certain things five or six times, and I realized they were habits. Yeah. They weren't style and techniques, so I broke it into two columns, and this was after I read it. Said these fall in a style and technique. These were just cool things that people said or did or postures they took, and I threw that in the style and technique column. Yep. And then I said these things that I repeated over and over were were habits. These were what great sellers did every day. These are the things they did when no one was looking. These were the things that they did because that's what made them great. And that, I realized, was the secret. So I focused this whole education, and I I don't like training. I like education. Because if you think of the sports metaphor, and that's why the athlete thing is there, you know, I played I was a big soccer player, was you learn the game, you add you're educated on it, you train, and then you have a coach for your position. Alright? You have a coach for the team. And the whole idea is what? You're raising the bar, and I was I had aspirations. I was motivated. I wanted to play for the US national team, for the Olympics, and that was my aspiration. But I would never get there, if not every day I was doing what? Right. I was raising that bar. And that became so I looked at it. I said, these are disciplines, but these people made them habits. So I took it the order. I said, the disciplines were things about, I like to say, is eat right, exercise, get enough sleep, you know, go to bed. And those are disciplines. But when you do them enough, they became habits. And what I saw was the great sellers. It was all about habits. So that's why I focus on that, and that's how it all started.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. And, you know, what's interesting about that, the way you said that two columns, you know, the style is is is interesting because that that seems to be the one that gets the attention. If you just have a better pitch deck, if you just have a better demo, you're gonna win more business, and and that can be farther from the truth. Yeah. Sometimes you need, like, you need a better demo, and you need a good pitch deck, but it's the discipline in getting to that pitch or that demo and the things you do between that those conversations that matter more, I think.

Ken Powell:

Was a curve to the right. It's not about the cool technique and style because that's lost. I mean, your personality is built on you, your experiences, who you are, all these things that I can't replicate you. You can't replicate me. But I can take a look at what Michael does when he wakes up in the morning and that routine and and the thing that make him great. So I can do that. You know, I ran a marathon once. I ran two of them, actually, and I'm not a runner Yeah. At all. I hate running. But I had what? Motivation to run the Boston Marathon. So I said, what do I need to do to be able to run it, to not walk? See, my aspirations weren't winning. It was running the marathon and not walking. I wanted to be running 26.2 miles. Yeah. So so the the point was is I identified what I had to do, and I wrote that down. I followed that, but I got it from, you know unfortunately, the guy was named Jim Fix. He actually passed away of a heart attack, and he was a marathon runner. But that's just bad genes. He had a phenomenal training regime. And that's that's what this was, was how can you shift the entire curve is getting all of your sellers Yep. On that routine

Michael Cupps:

Yep.

Ken Powell:

As long as they had the right attitude, they had the right aspiration, the right motivation. If you embrace that, you can make you can actually get everybody to raise their bar. They have to wanna do it.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the the interesting thing about it is, some of the methods that you that you teach and you taught then and still still is in the book are you know, they're they're basic stuff. It's not like No.

Ken Powell:

You have

Michael Cupps:

to have a PhD to come do it. You just have to be disciplined about it. Right?

Ken Powell:

That's right. That is so right. You know, I it's it's so funny. When you read the book, and I'll have to post it up here for those of you who haven't seen it. It's the black color on Amazon. But when you read the book, literally, I designed this so it can sit on your desk. I wanted it to be a reference. I wanted you to be able to say, oh, how do I do call planning? Or how to think about that. I just said call planning. Well, everyone knows they should do call planning. Yeah. It's a sales it's a stake. It that is a table stake. Right?

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ken Powell:

However, I will tell you something. During that training I did, that education training I did for that company we were at, I had a person come up to me. And and she was an exceptional rep, higher per highest performing in the Eastern Region. And she said, I came to this training kicking and screaming. I said, what is this dude gonna tell me that I already know? And I'm sitting down there going, she said, you reminded me of the things I used to do that got me where I'm at today, and thank you because I'm gonna go back to doing them. Yeah. Like and she's she called out, believe it or not, call planning. She's like, I'm falling by the seat of my pants, man. I'm really good at it.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

So, anyway Well,

Michael Cupps:

you know what You're right. Interesting about that, Ken, is I I I don't remember which company it was. It it was a it was a relatively young company in the sense of maturity and and where they were in their stages. Think maybe stage b or even a. I don't remember. And I when I got there, I just started doing call planning. And the technical salespeople and the salespeople were like, what are we doing? I said, we're gonna do a thirty minute prep call before we even talk to the customer. And they were like, why are we doing this? And over time, after you do it a few times, they're going, oh, yeah. We were better prepared when we walked in there. And but it was something they didn't even know. So I wanna put that back. When you go in and help a team or a leader, I mean, what is the number one mistake you see that that just is, like, every time? You know, you know this is gonna happen.

Ken Powell:

Well, I there there are quite a few. So you think of symptoms. Yeah. For instance, my people can't forecast. That that's not a problem. That's a symptom of other things, foundational breaks. And so I'll nod and say, okay. They can't force it, but they're great salespeople. They really know the technology. They really know this. They really know that. They know the industry. They're gonna position it. So we actually go through and try and diagnose what the root cause is, you know, using, you know, the the five y six sigma technique. So why do you think that wise your forecast? And you'll come back to what this book. I wrote this one on purpose because it focuses on those literally, the foundational seven foundational habits. You rock these seven, you're done. Your forecast will be accurate. So it's not just one thing. Yeah. Call planning, yes. But I'm gonna throw in qualifying, but I got confused when I started looking at things like MetaPic. I went, too many letters, man.

Michael Cupps:

So I I took

Ken Powell:

I took IBM's 1960 BANT. Budget, authority, you know, need timing. I said, that one I can remember. But how do we make sure it's relevant today? It's really good, by the way. So I I I did what's called modern BANT. It's in the book. So it covers everything. I tested it against nothing against Medevic, by the way. I think it's great. All it is to take modern band, and it broke it into a lot more letters you can't remember. Yep. So the point is qualifying around budget, you know, and around authority, around timing, around the needs. But we expand. It's not the need that you respond to. You know, it's the pain. It's the fear. It's the gain. Yep. And the peep people will tell you what they think they need. So all of these things you boil down, and you realize it's not that hard. What is hard are the disciplines, and even harder is to make those disciplines habits. And that's what this is all about. So I'll focus on all seven. Yeah. And if you if you lock those in, you're well on your way. You're well

Michael Cupps:

on your way.

Ken Powell:

So it's not just one.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Exactly. It's not just one to call planning. I mean, imminent events and close planning. All those things are part of your your method that that have to have to happen to forecast accurately. But forecasting accurate also means that you're hitting the number you call, which that's what the companies need these days. I mean, it's your variability in that is just a is just a is a death sentence, especially smaller tech companies. Right?

Ken Powell:

Oh, yeah.

Michael Cupps:

So let's, so so you you wrote the book. I think you're thinking about writing others. I don't wanna put you on the line here to to to to to to yeah. What what would be the next one?

Ken Powell:

So so as my career progressed, I did go to a company. I don't know. I mentioned I went to SAP, and I was there, to run their global accounts. And and what we found was and you could imagine this with a big enterprise suite like they had. And if you're familiar with big enterprise apps, whether it be Oracle or SAP, there was always the massive buy consumption that went over budget over time. And and, you know, CIOs, a lot of times, didn't survive that implementation. It was Yep. A disaster. And so we real I looked at this old global accounts group, and they were just basically working to help the customer consume, eat what they purchased. And there was no they they weren't expanding, let's say, share of wallet, or they weren't expanding within the account. They were basically project managing. Yeah. And we went through, and and the mission I was given was we don't know we're spending a lot of money on this group, global accounts group. Don't know if it's profitable. Don't know if it's good money spent. But my gut instincts this was my boss's boss telling me this. My instinct says it's the right thing to do. I want you to go do the research, find out if it's profitable. And if it is, something we should be doing, codify it.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

Like, oh, that's a big word. But it really meant to figure it out. So I went to finance profitable. It was the best it was the most profitable group in his organization. Number two is the real question was, how do we take an existing relationship from where it's at today? So picture a key account. I don't care. You can be a mid market player, but you have certain accounts that are key to you. They're key to your business, and you wanna expand in those accounts. You wanna keep those clients happy. And so we really broke it down into what does a key account or a strategic customer want from you? And we identified a quarter four four things. They want innovation. They want a deep and meaningful relationship. They want value realization, and they want risk mitigation. I surrounded that with governance and account management. That was the foundational model of this next book, which is account planning and account management. Yeah. I've had clients, so certain industries, Michael, where I mean, I I was in oil and gas for a period of time, worked for Halliburton, the software company they acquired. I was doing when I left about 800,000,000. 50% of that revenue, these are rough numbers, were tied up. We're we're delivered from 10 accounts. Picture this. Yeah. The the next the next forty five percent came from a 100 accounts. So 9095% of my revenue came from a 100 accounts. Yep. And then there's this long tail. So the TAM was only about 2,000 potential buyers. So then I had this 5%. I said, you know what? We can't afford to sell to them, but we'll let them buy from us. But we can't afford to lose any of these accounts, especially those top 10. We saw these they were doing big numbers. Yep. Tens and tens and tens of millions a year. Tell me how you make up a $40,000,000 account if you lose it.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. You don't.

Ken Powell:

You can. You can. And so this became a global account planning, key account planning, but not just the planning. How do you manage it? That's book two. And by the way Nice. It's with the publisher now. It's been edited. It's with the publisher. I intend I'm going back and forth with them on certain aspects of it. I intend for that to be available, let's say, end of September, early October.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. And and that what's interesting about that, especially in this day and age, where software companies in particular are seeing a churn rate rise. Right? And they're not selling to their existing customers, and they're losing customers. And that combination of NRR is is a death sentence for a a young company. And so just paying attention to your customers. I was talking to somebody this morning, and she said, if we just pay attention to our customers, we're gonna be okay. And but people forget that. They want the glamour of landing that new logo, which which, don't get me wrong, are important, but don't walk by your customer to get to that new logo. Right?

Ken Powell:

And you also said something that that I try to define. I don't allow you pay you can't say to me, we need to pay attention to our customers. Because I'm saying, what does that mean? The reason these books are written is because I felt we gave lip service to a lot of these ambitions. Like, you just said something super important. So I I go, you sell it to me and I'm your sales rep. I said, Michael, you're right. But the way I think and the way I may execute on pay attention to my customer may not be what you want. It may not be best practice. It may not be the best way to grow a relationship, and that is what is codified in that book. And I didn't finish that. We in the book, I'm gonna give people to buy this book and then and then want to develop relationships is how do you take well, first of all, define my current relationship with the customer, like you said. I've got a relationship with a customer. It can be one of to me, one of three levels. One is transactional. You and I transacted. Right? Yeah. And so that's a legitimate foundation for a relationship. Right? Yep. Then how do I take it from that transactional relationship all the way up to what? A strategic partnership. Now I use the word strategic because we all are told, Michael, you know what your problem is? You don't you don't sell strategically. Your clients aren't strategic enough. They don't see us as strategic. We throw that word around. Drives me nuts. I define that in the book. Alright?

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

And then we show the process and give you the methodology to go from current relationship to strategic partnership. It's all built. I'm really excited because nothing like this I've ever seen exists.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. And it's built on the foundation in the current book, in raising the bar. So let's go back to that for a minute because I I think there's a and when we talked about it a little bit before we started this podcast, but, there's this notion of sales leadership out there that is, if I can just get my reps motivated, they're gonna do better. And and I've always thought that's and, well, when I teach about time, Bennett, and habits, motivation is a waning waning thing. Right? You can only you can't sustain motivation. You have to have something else kick in there. And so in your sales method, I think that that's what you're teaching is that here are the habits, and and it goes past motivation. Do do you care to share a little bit about that?

Ken Powell:

Yeah. You know, it's funny. I I I think about motivation, and I I talked about being motivated to, let's say, get in shape. I mean, if there's a lot of it's it's aspirational. There's not and by the way, I'm gonna tell give you four words that I looked for when I interviewed people. It was fire, passion, desire, and drive. Found they I'm looking for that in an individual because I'm saying that I'm gonna teach you everything you know. You're bringing really nothing to the table other than intellectual curiosity. Your Yep. And then the fire, passion, desire, and drive. If I think you're good enough to make it, we're gonna we're going to give you that foundation. And and I think about motivation, that is what it is. It's fire. It's passion. It's desire. And I'm driven, and I like that. So how do you go from being motivated? So if you think about sales motivational tools, spiffs, you know, just things that I'm throwing money at it. I I've done I've done contests. I've given away Rolex watches before.

Michael Cupps:

Yep. And

Ken Powell:

I will tell you, I don't believe when I did that and, heck, I think you were around one of the times I did that.

Michael Cupps:

Yep.

Ken Powell:

I don't believe that motivated anybody. Yeah. I mean, I have people that tried to sell them afterwards, but I and I had them engraved on purpose because I didn't

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

I didn't want to pawn it for cash.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. But

Ken Powell:

Yeah. My point was is that motivation is funny. It's a funny word. I want you motivated. But here's the good news. I'm going to teach you how to execute on that motivation. How do you take that motivation and that spirit you have and execute to the reward you're looking for? You could be motivated for a lot of different things and never get there.

Michael Cupps:

Right.

Ken Powell:

I'm always looking for the the path. Right? And, hopefully, we can make the journey a lot of fun as well. But it's got its place, but let me tell you something. These disciplines and these habits are the execution component, and that's what I'm focused on is execution.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah. And and when you correlate that to the athletic world, I mean, you you think about Nolan Ryan. He had aspirations and motivation as well, but but he was rigidly disciplined about how he went about it. That's how he could pitch into his forties as well, and throwing throwing very hard for a number of years. And so and that you can cross that any sport analogy. And that's why your newsletter, I wanted to mention that a little bit because I think it's, it's game film. Right? And and I love that concept. Right? So they and and even in sales, you need to do that. After after you have a sales call, after you have a big presentation, it's time to debrief. Most people a lot of people just walk you out. Well, we did alright, and then now off they go. But that debrief is really important. So talk about the game film concept.

Ken Powell:

You know, you're creating this let me give you some stats. I will tell you that 98% of sales calls are not debriefed. It's disgusting. Wow. Wow. By the way and I've been guilty of it as well. You know? I got a plane to catch. We got this and that. And I tried to instill this once as a sale leader sales leader once to at least even if I had to catch the flight, I would send a debrief email. And by the way, that did not go well. People were offended because you need to you would need to talk it, I think, face to face about that because you're gonna point out some things that they may not agree with. But a solid debrief is transparent, and, unfortunately, it is a it's a habit. It's a discipline that's lacking. So when I when I took a look at the whole idea of game film, if you look at, I mean, you know, I was not a football player, not really a baseball player, but my game was soccer. And we always game filmed before a competition, especially if you were, you know, playing at a high level. We would look at. You were looking for all the things that you could how you could you I was a goalkeeper. How could I defend against a freakishly fast forward? You know? And what would I have to anticipate? And all that done was reviewing and looking at if they were really good in the air. I mean, I'm gonna give you a lot of the World Cup is just here, so bear with me.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ken Powell:

But these are important. Yeah. And and so the idea was, let's create a newsletter where we break down some plays and break down I mean, hey. I've won some, and I've lost them too, by the way. Yeah. And I have no problem, especially this place in my career, to share with lessons learned. Yeah. And and that's what the whole idea of game film is all about and how they play into these foundational habits we're we're talking about of great sales athletes that have the motivation and aspiration to become great. They wanna be the top of their game. I wanna talk to you.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

I will help you become the best you can be.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so two more two more big questions, and we we'll talk about some of the subtleties in there. But, these days, people are misplacing or misunderstanding the role of technology, I think. And you you knew Tom Siebel. You know, you you you, for those that don't know Siebel, it was a it was the major CRM system for a while. But with AI, with with CRMs, I mean, people are trying to out technology their competitors, and and I I think sometimes they're missed the plot. Now I I do think technology can help in certain areas, but if if it's the only thing, it seems to be missing really badly because now you hear all these I mean, it's just crushing outreach. It's doing it's, you know, just slop everywhere. So what's your thought on technology relative to being your best athlete?

Ken Powell:

Yeah. So so if you think about what you just said on the technology thing, and you can you can continue on with the athlete metaphor. And by the way, for those of you that didn't play sports, it's okay. This is same with if if you're a dance, if you're playing chess, it's this is all applicable. Sports metaphors are real easy. Yeah. But technology technology even look at the sports and the athletes in recovery, the technology is there. But what happens is is we're gonna get back to them and use where the disciplines have actually showing up. Technology is not the answer. We're over we're definitely over tech. We're over tooled for sure and over scripted. What's lacking is these are these fundamental disciplines. It's true. And by the way, it's not the fault of the seller today. This is the most, I'm gonna say, underinvested part of the most important aspect of any company. Now you could say, well, it's a multibillion. It's a 4 or $5,000,000,000 business out there. Extremely fragmented. Yeah. And and the the the way training is delivered today is flawed, massively flawed. And so when I took a look at technology, I asked a question. Trust me. As a CRO, I was investor. I've got a ton of stories on technology stories. But my opinion and my point of view, it hasn't changed at all since I first bought my first CRM. How does this technology make me a better seller? Yeah. Now I'm gonna give you a very seller centric point of view. And and it's and it also goes through the way I see the world, which may or may not people may may not agree with. But I made sure when I delivered any CRM, it was something that you, as a seller, actually wanted to use. And if you thought it was a pain, I would I wouldn't do it. Yeah. And so the technology had to say, is this gonna make Michael will this make Ken a better seller, better at what he's doing? Will it help raise his bar and step up? And the answer is, it can. If it's developed and designed and rolled out correctly, trust me, I've seen a CRM, especially at the larger company I've been in, that had a thousand fields. Yeah. Pick lists. And and I'm going, wait. Wait. I only need seven. I need 10. Yeah. Again, that they were I mean, blame it on marketing. Blame it on product. Everyone who wanted to tag something. And I finally said no. I actually hid thousands of fields. And and if if I had to share a CRM with a lot of different divisions. Anyway, a lot of story that people are confused. Pick up the phone. We could talk about it.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well and then I think that that's the point is that your your core message there. If it's not helping a seller sell, then let's stop doing that. Right? So that's the that's just a simple litmus test there. So the next question I wanted to talk about is really, kind of this concept of the sales system versus the sales team. Because I you know, you and I have seen it tons where a new sales leader comes in and says, well, I'll just change the team over and everything will be alright. Or maybe not on a new sales leader. The same sales leader that hired the next that previous sales team is now saying, well, they're not good enough. I'm gonna hire more. And let's talk a little bit about that that because that's just a that's a that's a treadmill right there, and it it's more about the system.

Ken Powell:

Mhmm. No. It is. It is. I mean, I've I've been brought in many places. And a lot of times when you're bringing in someone like me, something smells and something's broken. A lot of I would say what kind of cape do you need? What's Superman? Is it Batman? What miracle needs to be worked here? And it's it's not the people. I mean, I I can't name the companies, but I went and they were good people. They were I would just say, let's say misled. I wanna say misled mismanaged.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

And they weren't led. And so what the secret sauce I found was, this is not rocket science. We can distill down these fundamental disciplines and get everyone to sign up one piece at a time. I'll tell you there was one company I was with where they really didn't even believe in the product. They believed that the competition had passed them by. They believed that they had been asleep at the wheel, and yet they had been there for fifteen years. Like, well, why didn't you leave? Anyway Yes. These things go in the back of your head as a new sales leader. But, you know, well, tell me when you actually take the time, and this is more people oriented. You take the time and get to know what their aspirations are, their motivations, where they wanna go, why, and how they wanna get there. And then do they understand the products and getting their opinions? You're gonna find out what category they fit. Are they on the dock or are they on the boat or are they trying to straddle? And you know the story there. Yeah. So what you do is you you come out and say, hey. This is where we're going as a sales leader. This is why we're gonna go here, and this is how we're gonna get there. And there's no say staying on the dock, no straddling. I'm okay with you don't agree, but you're gonna have to go.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

You you make your own decision. If you try to straddle, you're gonna fall in and get crushed when the boat pans back in. Yep. But if you don't agree with where we're going and you've got better ideas, raise your hand right now. Let's talk about it. Yep. Very few people do. And I try to keep it open, but that's all the stuff we've been talking about. You've experienced it, and it's not offensive. Because you're going, look. Ken, I know I need to do this. This this is fundamental stuff. And I'm going, okay. Well, guess what, Michael? You're going to have to do it, and we're going to inspect it, and we're going to actually make it better each time we do it. So, yeah, first call plan you did? What do you think?

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

But that's what we so we end up working it, and you're gonna find that entire I found that entire curve did shift to the right, and the ones that were on the other side, you know, because that's that that curve. Right?

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ken Powell:

The other ones on the other side of the line, they fell off. They self selected, and the ones that couldn't wanted to made it. These are career decisions. But to go in and do what you you've mentioned and alluding to is, like I say, flushing the toilet is the wrong thing to do.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's what's interesting now with the culture, and and I I know you work with private equity firms and and groups that have a portfolio of companies, is this is a system that, I mean, can be adopted across a portfolio. Gotcha. You know? Because it's it's it's fundamental. I I I mean, it's just how you get better. So and and You know?

Ken Powell:

And that that it's not just tech either. This is the real important piece. I've two of my clients now are not tech at all. Industrial.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

And by the way, that's a a huge need. They they really thrive in this one because, you know, they they're hungry for it. Their attitude is awesome. You know, that we tech guys, we we know everything. We're the smartest guys in the room. And that's the unfortunate part. You know? Yeah. Maybe it's true. I don't know.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe it is. But but but you're right. I think we could all learn lessons, and that's that's one of the things. I mean, for all the bad press that private equity gets, some of the good things is it takes companies that are struggling and and allows them to get lifted up and do something else, whether that exit is to merge with another company or what have you. But there's a reason why they were a target for that, you know, that acquisition in the first place. And if you can put a system in to make them better, then that's good for everybody. And that maybe gets lost a little bit in all the news headlines about private equity, etcetera, but it's interesting. And I appreciate what you're doing there. So let's kinda now we're wrap it up here. Sales method is out there. So they can go to salesmethod.com. They can find you on LinkedIn. Where where else? Of course, Amazon, the book is out there now. You can get, it was out there, and I looked at the Kindle and the the previews there. I'm gonna post a picture of the preview with the it's the, basically, table of contents with a little descriptive in there. What did I miss and and help help people find you.

Ken Powell:

Hey. I'll I'll tell you what. Salesmethod.com is is the easiest place to go to. I'm obviously on LinkedIn. I have been religiously posting twice a week, little little tidbits for everyone to grab, and it's, it should be good stuff. If you don't if you don't think it's good stuff, let me know. But it's it's all the tidbits and it's all consistent. There's nothing here that I'm going to reinvent. I did mention though there is a third book that's gonna come out that is gonna be a fun one. I'm having a lot of fun writing this one now because it is a little bit more about the style and technique stuff. It's about elite selling and things like, how do you own the room? Right?

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

How do you prep for that? How do you do a killer demo? You talked about prepping. Yeah. What's your role? How do you sell without using PowerPoint? How do you use the back of the napkin, the whiteboard? You know, these are the things that, that are gonna be in that last one. So it's a lot of a lot of stuff. They're, like, 25, 28 chapters, but they're small. And, again, everything I'm doing sits on your desk, and you can open it up and hopefully remind. I do self diagnosis so you can diagnose yourself in the book.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. So

Ken Powell:

you don't have to have him there and say what how good am I doing? It's all there. So I've tried to make this I thought about something I could use. I mean, I've gone through all the sales training through my career that I can you can imagine.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

And so from that, this whole thing was designed with a seller in mind. So that's intentional, and I'm giving it all. I'm there's no secret no trade secrets here. You guys are giving it all, and whether you call me or not is up to you.

Michael Cupps:

But thank you for that. Yeah. What I like about it, though, is that there's seven things. If you just do these start with these seven things or start with the first thing and then work to two and three and four and five. That's how we that's how we get stronger fit anyway as we we build. And but it's seven things, and it's and when people that haven't read it, when they read it, it's seven practical things that that when you think about it, I I should already be doing that. And and once you've embed that into your habit system, you'll have success. It's just it's that. It's it I wanna say it's that simple. It's it is follow the follow the playbook, basically. So

Ken Powell:

That's right.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah.

Ken Powell:

No. It Yeah.

Michael Cupps:

Great to see you again, Ken. Thanks for doing this, and thanks for, putting this out there. I mean, I it's what's fun for me is the full circle, you know, because I I saw I remember when salesmethod.com, you you bought the URL even. So that was

Ken Powell:

That's right. No. You were there. You were there.

Michael Cupps:

And you've been you've been carrying it for a while. So there you go. Carried it

Ken Powell:

for for a long time.

Michael Cupps:

Yeah. That's awesome.

Ken Powell:

The king of life. That's great. Yeah.

Michael Cupps:

That's awesome. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you everybody for tuning in, and we'll see you next week.

Ken Powell:

Thanks, Ken. My pleasure. Thank you. Bye.

Head Shot

Michael Cupps

Host
Head Shot

Ken Powell

Guest